Mails: What would Klopp do with this United?
Date published: Friday 4th November 2016 2:37
If you have anything to say on any subject, mail to theeditor@football365.com
Bring back Louis the Gent
At the rate that we are going, I would much rather have LVG in charge. At least we would have a manager who is a gentleman instead of the current prat.
Wayne, ManYoo, Singapore
No, Jose is our best option
In time, I suspect a squad built around de Gea, Bailly, Shaw, Blind, Herrera, Pogba, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Rashford, Martial and Lingard could be exceptional. But this needs time, and consistency of management and environment, neither of which they have had. Left to develop as a midfield partnership, Pogba, Herrera, Mata and Mkhitaryan should become a fine unit, but this needs time and consistent selection in one system and style (and no Fellaini).
Secondly, United lack players at their peak. They have had a number of fading elite players (Rooney, Ibra, Falcao, Schweinsteiger etc.), and an excellent group of young players, but very few players who are in their peak years for their position. Mata is, ditto Herrera, and Mkhitaryan and Schneiderlin should be if they were ever actually picked, and it’s telling that Mata and Herrera are United’s most consistently impressive players.
Neither Moyes nor van Gaal deserved more time at United. Moyes would always have been a disaster, and van Gaal should have gone in late 2015. But Mourinho does. For all his idiosyncrasies (and he really is tedious), he has an excellent record, and is the best manager United are likely to get. There’s every reason to think, given time, that he’ll get it right, and very few alternatives anyway.
Chris MUFC
If it happened at your work…
I do not buy into laying the blame at the United players’ feet. What Ted, Manchester says is true – many of our players are making errors that they would not normally be making, but why is this? My own theory is that it is to do with their frame of mind, and for this ultimately the manager is responsible.
With any change in the workplace (which this effectively is) people need to be given time to adapt. During this time they also need to feel an element of safety and to be able to experiment and make genuine mistakes without fear of punishment. This is vital to learning and being able to change. If this isn’t given then you see increased levels of stress and anxiety, and ultimately people won’t be able to adapt to the change that is being asked of them. This is what I believe we are seeing.
The approach taken by Mourinho, from the outside admittedly, is that if you are not favoured or if you make a mistake or do something that the manager does not want you to do then you are ‘frozen out’. In fact you might just be frozen out for hardly any reason at all.
What effect would it have on you if at your work a new boss came in, told you that things are going to be done differently around here, pointed at your mate and told them they weren’t welcome anymore, promoted the tall guy with the ‘fro who only got his job accidentally to assistant to the regional manager (a job you’d been hoping for), and then started punishing others that didn’t immediately work exactly how he wanted to? You’d be scared of making the slightest mistake, you’d be walking on eggshells, and completely lacking in confidence to do what is being asked of you.
Being paid £250k a week doesn’t change this. To me it isn’t any wonder that players aren’t performing when at any moment they could be discarded for doing little other than what they can do. Mourinho appears to have gone in all guns blazing and stamping his authority, and it is backfiring. Perhaps, with more players being brought in from the cold, he is realising this.
Horse
Ted’s back already…
Just some random musings on the morning’s mailbox and some news stories since.
1. Guy S really has just proved how blinkered he is when it comes to Rooney. ‘Thing is, we can usually point at obvious things to make us feel better: Rooney’s bad touch (absent today)…’ Are you effing kidding, Guy? Off the top of my head, I can think of two massive chances that your Wayne blew by having a horrendous touch. First the exquisite disguised pass from Martial playing him clean through on goal, which Wayne contrived to bounce (that’s how bad his touch was; a brick wall offers more deftness) straight to the defender. Second, the ball was turned over deep in the Fenerbahce half and played to Wayne, who – thanks to an awful touch – ended up over-running the ball into trouble, when a shot or key pass were both possible. If he had scored or assisted in either situation it could have changed the landscape of the game at 1-0, but it’s this wastefulness that makes him a liability. Fair enough, you’re entitled to defend him, but at least don’t defend him for something of which he was blatantly guilty.
2. I think the fact that both van Gaal and currently Mourinho are struggling with very similar squads to the one Moyes had at his disposal, coupled with his record at other clubs since, suggests that it wouldn’t have made much positive difference to our fortunes if we’d kept Moyes on. I know his two clubs since haven’t been the same calibre of club (or have they?) but I’d say Moyes’ problems are ingrained in his refusal to adopt a more modern approach to management, something that more time in the United job wouldn’t have changed.
3. I don’t want to sound like I’m drinking the kool aid or anything, but I found it hard to disagree with anything Mourinho said post-match. He is not blameless – far from it – but his assessment of where we went wrong last night was spot on, for my money. The key is whether or not he has the ability as a coach – not a manager – to address those problems. If he can find a way to do so, the players might just respond and we’ll see an upturn in performances. Big ‘if’ though.
4. There was an article about who Jose might want to sell from his squad and I have to say, of those eight, I would only really be disappointed with Darmian and/or Schneiderlin’s departures. Switch those two out for Rooney and Fellaini and I think we’d be on to something. I think that is the real problem with the squad; while it’s not exactly awful, there are a number of players who just aren’t good enough for our requirements/objectives. It’s not that they are particularly bad, it’s just that they could definitely be improved upon. That said, this squad should still be doing better than they currently are.
Ted, Manchester
Who’s to blame? Everyone! EVERYONE!
There is no one cause of United’s current crisis. No, not even Rooney is solely to blame (though make no mistake, he’s a part of it). The simple, yet complex, reason is that everyone had a hand in it.
The Glaziers: Years of chronic under-investment during Ferguson’s latter years in both the first team, and damningly, the youth setup, while the family silver was sold off left United in a terrible state upon the Great Man’s retirement. Examples are replacing Ronaldo with Valencia and not replacing Scholes or Giggs at all. Only DDG qualified as one of the world’s best when Moyes took over. They also had no plan whatsoever for Ferguson’s retirement.
The CEOs: Both Gill and Woodward. Gill for having no plan whatsoever for Ferguson’s retirement and permitting the atrophication of the 1st team and academy setup. Woodward for his slapstick approach to player acquisition in that first summer. Nor does Woodward seem to have any plan for the future of the club other than sign whatever shiny bauble he can get his hands on.
Sir Alex: Yes. Sir Alex. He left behind a midfield of an ageing Carrick, Cleverley, Anderson and a very unwell Fletcher. He refused to sign a midfielder for seven years. SEVEN. He brought a 38-year-old Scholes out of retirement and played Rafael in centre mid. I love Ferguson but I’m sorry – that is a disgrace. He as much as anyone tolerated the under investment in the first team and didn’t seem to notice as the talent from the youth sides dried up. I assumed for the longest time that the Glaziers simply didn’t make the money available to him. Given what they have now invested that just doesn’t stack up.
Moyes: The board appointed the wrong man – but for the right reasons. I understand what they were trying to do but Moyes wasn’t capable of living up to their hopes. Just as Ferguson wasn’t appointed to do what he did at Aberdeen, Moyes was not appointed to replicate what he did at Everton. They were caterpillars whom United hoped would transform into butterflies. Ferguson realised this and stepped up. Moyes did not. He dithered, panicked and bottled it leaving wreckage in his wake. Every single aspect of his tenure was a disaster.
The Players: Massive responsibility lies here. Rio, Evra, Carrick, Rooney, RVP – they had terrible seasons under Moyes. Yes the management bears a lot of responsibility but they are still professionals. Rio moaning in the press about selection policy and low fat chips in the dining room highlight a total lack of professional responsibility. I do believe the first team was poor – but there was no excuse for individual performances on that level.
United tried after Fergusons’ departure to bring in managers for the long term in Moyes and LVG. But the club was in such a state when they took over that that was always going to be a massive challenge. It was exacerbated by appointing men not up to the job. The first team was bereft of top tier talent and, crucially, leadership. Now in crisis they have appointed the antithesis of what they stand for – Mourinho – to shore up the sinking ship. He has now done what he always done – spent huge sums, marginalised talented players, caused controversy and reverted to physical, defensive football while keeping youth, at best, on the periphery.
The cause of United’s crisis is failure throughout the club. It cannot be fixed by Pogba or Zlatan and probably not Mourinho. It will take a manager with a mid to long term vision, who can inspire the players he inherits to play beyond themselves while he moulds the club in his image, a patient fanbase and a supportive Board willing to back him for three years at minimum.
Sounds quite like a rival club not so far down the road who spent quite a bit of time trying to recover after their golden age…
Stephen (Go on print it – it is actually my birthday), Dublin
No no no to Moyes
Moyes started this rot! The worst decision Utd made was Moyes. No! No! no! Things would be worse with Moyes. We should have sacked him earlier instead of allowing the damage he caused to fester.
Deji (Anti-Moyes, Toronto)
Fixing Man United…Klopp style
Been a while since I felt inclined to write in, think the last time I was published was a cry for Brendan to play Sakho, but there’s been a lot of talk about Utd and how Jose doesn’t know his best team. For me it’s a no brainer. And yeah I’m essentially copying Klopp’s successful formula but if ain’t broke don’t fix it!
De Gea
Valencia Smalling Bailly Shaw
Herrera Schneiderlin Pogba
Mhki Rashford Martial
No Rooney. No Ibra. And unfortunately no lovely Juan. The issue is Pogba, a three-man midfield is basically the only way to play, at the expense of a number 10, to get him in his best position. Let him go box to box, fairly straightforward. Pace on the wings and up top, all of those front three are capable of winning a game for you. As my Utd supporting mate admitted to me last night he loved the Pride and Prejudice TV, I don’t mind saying a midfield two of Schneiderlin and Herrera with Pogba supporting them could be one of the best in the league.
Football management. Easy right?
Sam, LFC (Just don’t expect me to call him Tony V, he sounds like Number Johnny Five’s cousin) North Yorks
Why so reluctant to admit Jose is struggling?
Great article today by Sarah Winterburn highlighting the journalistic double think that we seem forced to endure.
There seems to be a strange intolerance to the idea that Man United/Jose Mourinho could ever struggle (or out and out suck) and certain elements of the media are desperate for a run of results to prove that this utter unwatchable dross is just a teething problem on the way to United inevitably returning to the top and Mourinho retaining his undisputed crown as The ‘insert hyperbole here’ one.
This Mourinho obsession doesn’t make sense when there are other managers in the league whose teams are so much more fun to watch – Poch, Pep, Klopp etc. But then I suppose those examples didn’t have to ‘rebuild a broken empire’ and worse still – overcome the horror that LVG left in his wake. Oh Louis! How could you?
Anyway, nice article.
Adrian (Hants) LFC
Why didn’t United spend in Fergie times?
One of the things that has actually frustrated me about United post-Fergie is the vast amounts of money spent by the club in the bid to get back to the top in contrast to the criminal under-investment in the playing squad after Ronaldo set sail to Madrid. The team of 2006-2009 was magnificent, and after loads of average and good players were added, it was Fergie’s genius and winning mentality ingrained in the club that enabled the team to win more titles in 2010/11 and 2012/13 as well as reach one more Champions League where a much better Barca team than 08/09 met a poorer United team than the previous final two years before.
I often wonder if maybe the great man would have won Old Big Ears one more time, and the other times we lost the league, it was by single point to Chelsea in 09/10 (after a red-hot Rooney got injured in Munich and a promising season derailed), and in 11/12 when goal difference and Agueroooo happened. Yet for the past three years, we’ve been spending cash like it’s going out of fashion with the same stench choking the Theatre of Dreams.
Funny that we need another Fergie now to rebuild like we needed some investment then to conquer Europe. You dont always get what you need when you really need it tho.
Mere Godled, MUFC, Nigeria (Money in the wrong hands is worthless)
Hard times
Couldn’t help but chuckle when Salford Red in Nairobi referred to that drought from 2004-2006.
God, that must have been awful…imagine supporting, I don’t know…anyone else?
Jeremy, Dublin, THFC
CL failure is price of exciting Premier League
The recent round of mixed Champions League results for English teams has gotten me thinking about why things are so different now to how they were between 2005-2012, when they were relatively dominant (albeit not extraordinarily successful – 3 wins in 8 years is hardly imperious). I think the reason English teams don’t go as far as they once did is down to several factors, many of which make the domestic league far more enjoyable than it used to be.
To begin, you have to go back to the summer of 2004. Jose Mourinho and Rafa Benitez are given their first jobs in England, and popularise the 4-5-1 formation, or variations of it, like 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1. Dour football, extreme negativity, and an over-reliance on tactics instead of skill ruled the day for years. Such was the gap between the Big Four (this was the era of Grand Slam Sunday, and FourFourTwo running an article asking whether any other side would ever qualify for the Champions League) and the rest, that the other 16 teams, by and large, shut up shop, played it safe, and prayed for a draw. I’m not talking about all teams in all cases, of course, but this was certainly the overriding plan when playing against the big teams. Just look at the league now, and see how many of the non-Champions League team play nice, attractive football.
So, there was not only this increased negativity at home, which decreased competition (largely; I’m not forgetting that Everton finished 4th that year), but that tactical discipline told English teams how to succeed in Europe. By Fergie’s own admission, United had been naive at times in Europe, but that could never be said of Mourinho or Benitez. The lack of competition in the league meant that teams could prepare better for Europe than they do now, in terms of both tactics and fitness.
How did this change? It’s easy to just say ‘Manchester City’s money’, but huge credit must also be given to Spurs, and particularly Martin Jol. Not that I forget Harry Redknapp’s mighty fine job. I’m no Spurs fan, but we should remember how impressive their rise from 2004 onwards has been. Yes, they spent money, but they weren’t financially doped like others we could mention. They clawed their way out of mid-table, into Europe, then the Champions League, by virtue of good signings, great sales, and some very astute management (who else other than Harry could tell someone to “fahcking run abaat”?). They smashed the Big Four, and suddenly it was up for grabs.
Now, this of course has made things harder for English clubs in Europe, but so what? The league is more competitive, and, much more watchable. Around 2010-2012, things began to change, and less successful sides began to realise that it was possible to get decent results without having two banks of four and one centre-foward. David Moyes’ 4-1-4-1 started looking dated (they still did very well, but certainly stalled in his last few years), and Brendan Rodgers’ Swansea started looking like the future. It’s fashionable to slag off extreme passing these days, but what that great Barcelona side of 2009-2012 showed us was that keeping possession could be an offensive tactic, and not only a defensive one.
This brings us up to now, where the league is probably more enjoyable than it’s ever been in my time as a football fan. And, if nothing else, this cultural shift has made Mourinho look sickeningly out-of-date. Which is just lovely.
Ciarán in Archway
Southampton have the right idea
15th May 2005, United beat Southampton 2-1 to end a 27-year run in top-flight football and consign us to several terrible seasons nearly ending in financial ruin. Last night those two teams both featured and had very different results; perhaps showing clubs going in different directions.
While there are quite a few factors, the difference between the two clubs seems to be that one has a clear system and structure in place (Southampton). While United are chasing quick fixes and throwing money around.
For those who don’t know, and it’s not exactly rocket science, Southampton have a ‘black box’ scouting and training concept for identifying and developing players (a good article here http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/11582234.display/). It seems to work really well and I’m sure Liverpool fans are particularly appreciative.
The board also constantly maintains a list of managers likely to succeed in Southampton’s club environment with the club’s targets. Their record to date with identifying managers and giving them a platform to succeed in the Premier League speaks for itself and Claude Puel looks like another smart addition.
So within this structure, players and managers may come and go yet the system keeps generating a positive outcome, along with a healthy profit (thanks again Liverpool). We’re never going to be the best team in the league with this attitude (Chelsea outclassed us across the pitch last week). Supporting a consistently good team though, that’s capable of giving anyone a tough game and can go on a cup run or two is a pretty nice place to be as a fan.
To take this back to United, their system for success was personality based with Alex Ferguson having the whole club built around him. Take that away and replace brilliance with mere competence and the resulting few years happen.
Klopp and Liverpool, Wenger and Arsenal, Spurs and Pochettino. Let excellent managers build a system to support them and the results will follow. In chasing instant success and the resultant pressure with no margin for failure. United don’t seem to have a structure or system with players and manager pulling in different directions.
In this context then, shouting for Mourinho’s sack might not be the best thing. I don’t think there is any manger out there who could turn up and make United great again from where they are now. At some point you’ve got to stick with a manager and give them time if you want to get back to competing at the top.
Tom Saints (Crowbarring in a United theme to get a mail published. Really I just want to say how bloody awesome Saints were last night).
Don’t write off Sunderland, Cheeky
As always, the Cheeky Punt is a highly entertaining read – and I even (very occasionally) follow Degsy’s investment advice.
However, I look forward to you asking him revisit his promise on Sunderland and relegation in April and May 2017.
Obviously, they will fire their manager fairly soon – it’s what they do. They will then make a stupendously short-term appointment, because that’s what they also do. It’s frankly amazing that Harry Redknapp hasn’t managed them yet, but hey, now may be the time to rectify that massive oversight.
Harry will then open his car window and throw ridiculous money at the wall on the last day of the January transfer window, and at least some of it will stick. Yaya Toure on loan, anyone?
They will then get on their usual Spring roll. Last four home matches of the season: Man United, West Ham, Bournemouth and Swansea. Yaya sticks one in from miles out against United for old times’ sake and dispatches late penalties for narrow wins in two of the other games. Throw in three points away at Hull in early May and a nil-nil at the Emirates in April when Arsenal have 83% possession and two shots in target (in the second and 93rd minute). Suddenly, no matter how far behind they were at Christmas, it’s the last day of the season Degsy is relying on Chelsea (who have precisely nothing to play for and are not so much on the beach as curled up on one of those bed things) winning to make sure that Sunderland are relegated and the petrol can isn’t coming out.
Now that would be tension.
Mark Meadowcroft
Dundalk: Their feat in their hands
Another email about Dundalk and their Europa league adventure.
Last night they gave a valiant display in their 2-1 defeat to Zenit St Petersburg in Russia. Zenit had the lion’s share of the chances and possession but had to work very hard for their win. They even had a bit of luck when Patrick McEleney’s delightful chip hit both the crossbar and the post before coming back out. That would have made it 2-2 and Dundalk would not have been unduly flattered by the point.
Nevertheless, Dundalk still sit in second place in the group with two games left, their destiny firmly in their own hands. If they beat AZ Alkmaar at home and get even a point against Maccabi Tel Aviv in Israel then they’re very, very likely to go through. Both of those teams have to face Zenit again and it is not unreasonable to expect Zenit to take a further six points from them; they’ve already beaten Alkmaar 5-0 at home and Maccabi 4-3 away (despite being 3-0 down with 15 minutes left).
I’m hardly the only one who thinks that Dundalk have an excellent chance at progression either. Here’s Zenit manager’s Mircea Lucescu’s take on Dundalk: “The best team is Dundalk. I cannot compare them with the others.”
All in all, incredible stuff. And in a week where Dundalk’s Daryl Horgan and Andy Boyle have been included in the provisional squad for Ireland’s World Cup qualifier against Austria this month. I hope they both make the final squad, but my fingers are particularly crossed for Horgan. We don’t have too many players that can score the type of wonder goal he got last night.
Not many teams do.
John (Horgan’s pass for McEleney’s chip was ludicrous too, rather Ozilesque), Enni
We need to talk about Sow
Right I understand that United were terrible, but can we please show some appreciation for Sow. What a goal. If Mesut ‘F*cking’ Ozil had scored that a petition would be started to get him back on the Ballon D’or shortlist!
Also, considering chants are still be talked about in the mailbox I also thought I’d share my favourite experience. I was at Luton’s famous victory against Norwich a few years back in the FA Cup, and after a disappointing half time pie we spent the entire second half chanting ‘Delia Smith, your pies are sh*t!’, until this magic moment:
Liam, LTFC (Keep up the good work!)
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